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  • Interview with Srila B. V. Trivikram Maharaj

    How Goswami Maharaj met Trivikram Maharaj
    What does "Trivikram" mean?
    How Gurudev chose the land for the Brazilian Ashram
    9-11 from devotional point of view
    „Interview with Srila B. V. Trivikram Maharaj“ on YouTube

    Chiang Mai 2013 - Interview with Srila B. V. Trivikram Maharaj

    Author: Bhakti Sudhir Goswami Cycle: Chiang Mai 2013 Uploaded by: Priyanana Created at: 19 December, 2016
    Duration: 01:01:25 Date: 2013-11-18 Size: 56.24Mb Place: Gupta Govardhan Chiang Mai Downloaded: 2827 Played: 5358
    Edited by: Enakshi Devi Dasi Transcribed by: Inna Zverkova

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    Goswāmī Mahārāj: So, we are very fortunate this evening to be joined by Śrīla Bhakti Vijay Trivikram Mahārāj—Śrīla Gurudev's appointed Ācārya of
    Śrī Chaitanya Saraswat Maṭh, Brazil. Personally selected by His Divine Grace to be the Acārya of Brazil—and perfectly qualified also. And, I just... I don’t wanna get too formal. Let this be the end of the formalities. I'm just gonna fast-forward... I'll tell a little bit, lik how we met, and then you'll join in to correct my lies, exaggerations, fabrications. Is that acceptable?
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Ok. Completely.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: OK. So, Janārdan Mahārāj... [setting microphone, “Oh, I didn’t get that” (laughing)]
    Janārdan Mahārāj was very kind to me, and when Śrīla Gurudev was going out on tour of Mexico—I didn’t have any money, so I was going to be stuck in California with the Soquel blues, again. And, so, Janārdan Mahārāj... Really—he is very generous, among many other things. They will know his generosity. So, he paid for me to go to Mexico. And I remember— on the way out to the airport, the US customs officer—they always pick somebody, randomly out of the line. I am always the guy they pick, OK. I will be— it doesn’t matter how I dress, but I'm the guy they'll go, “Can we talk to you for a minute?” I go, “I know, welcome to my life!”
    And, you know, they go, “Are you carrying more than 10,000 dollars in US currency or monetary instruments?” I said, “I wish I was.” [laughing] And they say, ”All right, you can go.” [laughing] I look like the guy, who’s smuggling drugs, money or whatever, right? It's just the way it is and I accept it. Sometimes, I make not so humorous remarks and that gets me into trouble. Because the Irish modes of nature make the tongue wag, and wagging tongues...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Get in trouble.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Exactly. So, anyway, I go to Mexico, and we have this wonderful tour... I'll talk about it some other time. I was telling somebody about it today. Oh, Mahā Yogī Mahārāj, how in Veracruz the lady came... La Bamba—that song comes from Veracruz.
    And a woman—with a heart sining it very slow. And she made rhymes on the spot like she, you know, she... And Āśram Mahārāj would do it too. So, she's, like—after she'd play a little bit—she’d say, “I think, you all know, it's time to surrender to the lotus feet of Bhakti Sundar Govinda.” And, we're, “Yeaah!” And everyone, ”Yeaaaaah!” Anyway, that’s when I met the reigning Queen of Brazil and Yoga, and all things śakti — Rohiṇī Śakti Didi. And I could see this person is totally charismatic. And we hit it off well and everything, and she says,“ You should come to Brazil sometime, you know.” And I said, “Sure—but actually Śrīla Govinda Mahārāj decides where I go. So, I can, in principle, accept any invitation—but it will only be, when he tells me to go.Otherwise, I don’t decide to go somewhere. On my own I can’t accept an invitation, but I appreciate you're asking.”
    And, actually, some time goes by— maybe like a year or so, and...Yeah, it was a year. And then, somehow Gurudev green-light's the idea that I go to Brazil. But at that time he was not Trivikram Mahārāj; he was Anaṅga Kṛṣṇa. And that’s an interesting name, because anaṅga means 'cupid'. Like I wrote on the website, “The Ācārya from Ipanema.” [addressing audience] And I know, you have no idea what this is a reference to. But, there is a famous song from the 60’s, called, “The girl from the Ipanema.” And says, “She's tall and tanned, and young and lovely.” And our beloved friend, Bhakti Vilās Parvat Mahārāj—Bhūvan Mohan Prabhu, he went to school with the girl from Ipanema... it’s a long story.
    So, anyway, Mahārāj, he is, like... the tall, dark, handsome—he carries that; that is the burden, “This is my situation.” He has to carry that burden in life. So, that (Guru Mahārāj) Gurudev, named him—Anaṅga Kṛṣṇa. Gurudev, he has a little bit sense of humor. No, more than a little bit—a lot; that's an understatement. Anaṅga is the name of cupid, who is irresistibly attractive and seductive, etc. Anyway, who knows the mind of Srila Gurudev. But, so... but he is... hi's gonna take me up to the airport. And I can already sense, he is a little suspicious of who is this guy named Goswāmī, that Rohiṇī Śakti's all—gaga! And this is before Lady Gaga. [laughing] “'So, Rohini's all gaga about this 'Goswāmī guy', you know—what he's all about?”
    Trivikram Mahārāj: And she told me, you know, “If you don’t call Gurudev, and ask for Goswāmī Mahārāj to come, he would never come—because he knows all the etiquette—and he'll never cross over you. So, I think, they awaiting you to invite.”
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Right... aha...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Then, I called Śrīla Gurudev asking for your... for your presence in Brazil.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Right... Okay. So, he takes me over the airport—and I can say, I can detect, there is... I mean—he is the better side of 'neutral', but he's examining me. He's a little...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Never! [laughing]
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: He is skeptical.[laughing] you know, like, ”Who is this guy?”
    Trivikram Mahārāj: The truth coming to light. [laughing]
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Right. [laughing] I mean—it’s thick, I can feel it. So, I go, 'Oh, God, I just had a long... now I’ve got to, like, win this guy over'. You know—we’ve got a four hours ride. By the end of this ride we are going to know each other for better, or for worse.
    You know, and I would say... And I also—I've never seen Brazil before. So, I'm seeing these giant red anthills—just weird stuff. I mean, Brazil is beautiful but it’s also weird. Red clay anthills, everything... And, I am, like, “What are those things?” And he goes, ”They're anthills.”
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Termites.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: And they’re like the kind of Valmiki was in.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Termites...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Oh, termites! Yeah—termites. And, then I think, “This is bizarre.” And we are riding on the highway and Brazilian highway patrol looks like Nazis. They dress just like Nazis; they have the boots and then the pants, to go out like that... They carry German Lugers and they act like Nazis too. So, I am seeing many different things. But, half way through I am talking to Anaṅga Kṛṣṇa tāta at that time—who later becomes Trivikram Mahārāj. And, you know, he starts to lighten up a little bit.[chuckle]
    And then, I'd say, maybe two-three hours in—now we're like—becoming friends; I'm sharing things; he is getting to know me. I am getting to understand his past history and everything. So, by the time we get there, we're, actually, become friends. And, he's in a very humble position; he doesn’t want to translate. Bhūvan Mohan is a professional—he used to. His father was a professional for the government. He lived in Washington D.C at the Embassy. And Mahārāj doesn’t want to like— be match against him. But sometimes Bhūvan Mohan cannot be there—so, he is translating. And then, we are getting to know each other better and better and it starts working out. And this is the year of 9-11. [2001]
    So, Rohiṇī has all these big friends; she is the yoga teacher for the movie stars. And we were staying... it’s some, like—“Architectural Digest” house of Sulakṣmī... No...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Jayalakṣmī.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Jayalakṣmī, who is “Eco Cultura”
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah, now she is.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: So, I am on the flight. The in-flight entertainment, they have the show called, “Eco Cultura.” I watch this show—by this, you know—attractive Brazilian presenter. Then later, with Rohiṇī... another house... I go, “That's the lady on the airplane.” [laughing] And, she goes, “Oh yeah, I do that show.” And, you know, while staying there... I'm staying... this is—Trivikram Mahārāj is a lover of dogs, all right; and other animals—maybe all animals but particularly dogs. There's dog wherever he is—there will be dogs, right? I don’t think that's changed...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: No—still some dogs; about five or six.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: It's that so? Keep it down to five or six. At this house, I'm given a room that Jayalakṣmī’s dogs stays in.
    And what I don’t know is, that dog is about to have puppies. And she keeps coming to the room going, “Mmm, mmm, mmm...” and I am going... I didn’t figure it out—hat’s where she wants to have the litter; 'cause that’s her place! I am in that room. So, then everything is getting weirder by the minute. Then, Jayalakṣmī comes to the room; She knocks... [knocking] I am listening to the tapes of Guru Mahārāj. She goes, [knocking] “Ahh! you should go upstairs and watch the CNN.” And I'm, like, “Well, actually I'm listening to Guru Mahārāj now; I'm listening to this tapes.” And she said, “No. I am trying to tell you—America is being attacked by terrorists, and you should go up and watch the CNN, and they'll explain everything.”
    And I'm going like, “This women obviously doesn’t know what she's talking about. Anyway... “Just if it'll make you happy, I'll go upstairs and watch CNN and see how America is being attacked by terrorists—Whuuuuu!—you know.“ And I go upstairs, and the moment I go [hearing TV news] “The second tower has just fallen!”And, I like, “What???” So, I am not gonna get into all that. But you have to understand, I am thinking—suddenly all the airports were closed. Rohiṇī and I have a program to do for her new book—re-release of her book at the big book store. There, on our way... This is Brazil—they're saying, “Planes—maybe fifty planes are flying to each state of America and dropping bombs on the capitals and the government.” You know, another words—they don’t say there is two-three planes.
    It could be fifty, it could be a hundred, it could be a thousand planes are now attacking America, and blowing up the United States. That’s the radio while we're driving to Rohiṇī’s program. And they say, “All airports are closed, indefinitely.” And I was thinking, like, “Does that mean I now live in Brazil? [laughing] “This is gonna be weird; oh, my God, like—now I am not visiting Brazil—I live in Brazil!” And also, something really disturbed me—is that I look at my notes and the flight—it says, “Mom and dad; Newark to LA; such and such flight.” And I realize—my mother and father maybe on the flight of all the people who were dead.
    So, but Rohiṇī needs to do her book, and, so I said, “You know what—this is your day; lets forget, turn off the radio; let's forget all this stuff, and we just do your show.” And she goes, “Thank you!” You know, and when Rohiṇī does the interview she takes, like a little vial of something and goes like...[mimics 'sound-face exercise' (laughing)] And then go,[yelling: Hhheeewww!!!] And then she talks for thirty minutes [laughing] So, there's her friend—that lady who dose the Big Yoga meeting—you know who she is.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Masa De Luca.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yes! Her. So, Rohiṇī talks non-stop in a charming way for half an hour after drinking whatever is in that little bottle. I’d like to get some; make a note, “Give me a 'six pack' of that stuff!” I think it’s Guarana or something like that; maybe with some other thing, you know—Health Food stuff.[laughing]
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Organic.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Organic Poppy.[laughing]
    But, anyway, so, we do that and the people in the bookstore, they go down the stairs out into the street—waiting to take pictures with Rohiṇī. On I realize—Rohiṇī Śakti is a star in Brazil. She is famous. And he—before, had to always be like, “Who are you? Are you Rohiṇī’s husband? “
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Oh, I'm used to that.[laughing]
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Right. [laughing]
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Some people, they just tell me, “Oh, you belong to Rohiṇī Śakti's āśram?.. “
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Right. [laughing]
    Trivikram Mahārāj: I say, “Yes!” That’s life. [laughing]
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: And then we are doing program in the evening. And these people either own or run a TV station. You know who they are; also wife used to come out to the āśram. And I say, “I have to give... I think, I can either obsess about, whether or not my parents are dead—or talk about this 9-11thing that’s on the news all day and night, and everybody is talking about it. Or I can just talk about Kṛṣṇa-kathā.
    And I think, the best thing for me—the best thing for everybody here is that I will just talk about Kṛṣṇa, and not say one thing about 9-11 or start talking about the world of mortality. “Don’t do it.” Like, “Don’t go there. Just talk about Kṛṣṇa; you will be happy, they will be happy and we will all stop obsessing about all this staff.” And at the end of the talk... So, I did that; I was happy—everybody was happy. And then, they go, “The phone.” Because you can’t call America, either—they go, “You can now call.” And I called and find out—my parents were not going from Newark to LA.
    They were scheduled to go from LA to Newark. So, their flight was canceled—so, they are not dead! So, I was like, you know,” Haribol!” [laughing] But, anyway... Then we get back. And Mahārāj used to have a TV...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: No I didn’t.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: No?
    Trivikram Mahārāj: That—I have to arranged it for.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Oh, you got...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Then I got... I got some opportunity. Because I was wanting some TV. But, you know, as always— the last word is ours, “Yes, Ma'am.” Then... [laughing]
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Right. [laughing]
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Then I got the opportunity to have a TV—because Goswāmī Mahārāj is there, and needed news—then I could have a satellite dish and a TV.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Right.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: And they told me, “Don’t... Don’t do that, don’t put that; I don’t need that! And, I said to them, “I need!” [laughing] Then was a very...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: And the perfect it's use—like, “ Oh, we don’t watch TV, but
    9-11, you know.“
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeh.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: And on that; so, Brazil, again—and why it’s so unusual. Mahārāj would sit and watch. They have a station 24-hours that's just cows, OK? Cows!
    The Cow-channel; and that’s not, like, the Discovery channel or Animal Planet, all right. It’s a little different. And I came; Mahārāj is there, like... And there's this beautiful white cows with like, they look like Vṛndāvan cows, right? And, I am such idiot, and I go, ”What a pious country; they have a whole station devoted to cows. People don’t understand, you know—the Brazilian heart.” And Mahārāj goes like, “Wait a minute—It’s not exactly the Cow-channel.”
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Cow-protection station.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah, Cow-Protection Station. I go, ”How can they do this?” He go, ”It’s auction; they're selling cows.”
    And, you can imagine why do they sell cows; do I have to spell it out? McDonalds—you know who Ronald McDonald is? ”
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Brazil is the second Indian Cow population in the world. First is India—then is Brazil.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah, this big white ones.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah. You have Nelore; you have Zebu. Zebu means—those who have the hump.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Oh, the hump, right.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: And you have the Giv, means—Giri.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: They have the horns like—the long horns; beautiful.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Oh, like the Buffalo, right?
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah. And then you have like, many races from India... And from fifteen hundreds, [16th cenury] when the Portuguese people start bringing from Goa to Brazil.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Aha! Because, really they're the beautiful white cows we always imagine—that the B.G Śarma puts in his pictures.[India's painter]
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah, beautiful!
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Like that of Kṛṣṇa... (the big white ones) with Nanda Mahārāj. I mean—it will make you cry, they are so beautiful. And, then you realize why they're on TV. That might make you cry also. But just on this point—Guru Mahārāj, when devotees who're doing these whole thing—and somebody did this recently—how anyone who drinks milk it’s causing... I said, ”You're talking to the wrong Mexican, OK?
    Just stop there! “ I almost threw them out. I said, ”Never say that to me.” And I am not going to get angry right now— although I could; and I’ll just keep it light by saying, “Bhakti Pāvan Janārdan Mahārāj says, “His name is not Soy-vinda; it’s Go-vinda.” Right? And Govinda means— milk. I will drink milk till I die. Milk, butter, cheese, yogurt, curd—anything; I mean, I could drink milk till I pass out. When I visit my mother at home in America, I drink cold milk. I don’t do that here, but when I am there, I go back to my childhood. Whatever I eat, I drink around quart of milk with it. To this day I'm a milk drinker—like fanatic. And I don’t wanna hear, “No.” If you wanna be my friend, don’t ever say one thing against milk or milk products; butter, cheese, yogurt, or any of those things.
    Tell it to some other nagar. [town-born], ”Nagar what’s up?” OK? “Tell it to some other nagar; don’t tell it to me.” Right? I'm a cowherd-type, OK?”
    [laughing] As Gurudev said about Lalitā, “I can see—your Lord is Kṛṣṇa.”[laughing]
    So, anyway... So, what I want now—I just gonna fast-forward, and you will join and I'll shut up. I know, my mom says—I have two brothers—she says, “Philip was the last one to start talking; but once he started, he never stoped.”[laughing] But I am gonna stop. So, here is the last thing I'll say. So, fast-forward—Gurudev comes. And he will tell the details. [refering to Trivikram Mahārāj]
    He actually owns the land, the Gurudev was so proud of, and he always— Gurudev... I... Lalitā knows—all the time when he is telling you how wonderful
    Chaitanya Saraswat Maṭh is around the world—one of the first things he always says— talks about Russia, but he always says—and Brazil.” Here's the way he says it,
    ”Five miles by five miles!”
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Right.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: He always says that. And it doesn’t matter what literally is true. “Five miles by five miles, and it’s heavenly; and it’s this and that.”
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Thirteen houses; five swimming pools...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Right. Movie... swimming pools; movie stars.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Back swimming pool!
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Right. He tells that. So, like, ” Mercedes car!” You know, he likes to say that. Anyway... So, and Mahārāj can say some things about that, if he chooses to. But what I want to say is—this was his property. And he formally had another spiritual connection... so, actually trough Rohiṇī Śakti Didi, whom I met many years ago.
    She is a disciple of Śrīla Śrīdhar Mahārāj—even before Śrīla Gurudev. She is his disciple.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: I think she took initiation in '85.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah. So, goes way back. So, anyway... Then, she is his former wife... So, then, it’s getting to the point where he should make a connection with Śrīla Gurudev, and what he's gonna do with his property; his inheritance and all that. So, I have my own version of this; and it’s not a literal one. So, forgive me when I say this— and I thought about it for many years. And as you know, and it's been a few years now since Śrīla Gurudev withdrew his manifest presence from this plane—and out of necessity I compose praṇam mantras: one for Śrīla Avadhūt Mahārāj and one for myself.
    And some may say,” How can you make a praṇam for yourself ?” It’s a very good question. I've explained it in a great detail, if you want to read that. And... but in summary Guru Mahārāj says, “Yes, usually a qualified disciple does; who knows Sanskrit, etc.” We don’t have them, so, I happily did this for Avadhūt Mahārāj. I selected the concepts and the vocabulary. And our friends, who shall go nameless— because, they'll have to explain to everybody—they helped me. And through their paṇḍit-friends verified that the Sanskrit is correct. And this is like—being in the making for around a year. At least nine months. So, but interestingly, I found other praṇams coming out of me. And, I will write them for the other Ācāryas, also. But, his [refering to Trivikram Mahārāj] came before the others. It's not finished, don’t worry, I'm not... now, gonna have people come in with the sign or something.“ [laughing]
    But in that, this is the concept I've try to give, is that—in the story of Bali Mahārāja. He's told by his Guru Śukra Ācārya—in the presence of the Vāmana Avatār— not to comply with his request. And he's told when lying is acceptable, and not sinful: when your life is threatened; when someone is about to steal all your wealth—and my favorite one is—an lying to women to bring them under control. So, when the women says,”Does my b..t [behind] look like it’s getting bigger? The proper answer is, “If anything—the rest of you looks like it’s getting smaller.” All right. So, if you... I wrote in one place, “Never tell a women the truth; she never will forgive you.”
    So, we are told, “There is no sin in lying to women, to bring them under control. ”Oh, how sexist!” You know, it’s just happened to be, you know—let’s just be real. It’s the truth. So, “Thank you!” This guy rumbled in agreement; or this guy's saying, “Tell me about it.” Right? As Gurudev's quoted to one person when he entered his house—because his wife was hard to figure out—and he quoted this verse that says,
    ”Even the gods are bewildered trying to understand the mind of a woman.” But that’s a talk for another evening. So, anyway—he told these things. But Bali Mahārāja feels in his heart like, “My Guru's saying not to accept who's in front of me as being divine.
    I have a good excuse to ignore it, but my heart has 'laptop' and is telling me something else.” So, he… But he thinks, Vāmana Dev is a young brahmacārī, but is a little inexperienced. He said, “You’ve asked for three steps of land. Obviously, you don’t know much about life, existence and property. So, ask for something more appropriate than three steps.” And Vāmana Dev says very cryptically and beautifully; says, “I’ve heard that it’s not good to have more than you need. So, I only need three steps; that would be appropriate for me. I think, anything beyond that might not be good for my spiritual life, so—three steps would be fine.” “As you wish.” Then, we know—in two steps, he takes everything. And, then Vāmana Dev transformed and goes, “You’ve cheated me.”
    Bali Mahārāja's like, ”What?” “You’ve cheated me. You promised three—I’ve taken two. Where is my third step? You promised three, and in two —I’ve got everything; you are cheating me.” Right? As Saraswatī Ṭhākur say, “Don’t cheat me! You’ve come here for some reason. That’s what is brought us together—this connection for Mahāprabhu and Kṛṣṇa. Now, you're going?! As the festival is over, you're going home.” I say, “If your home is burning down—let it burn. It’s that home and everything in it, it's keeping you bound in the world. So, don’t cheat me today.” Guru Mahārāj often said, “What is this gentlemen saying? At the time of parting you should say something pleasant like—safe journey, and have a nice day!”
    He is saying, “Don’t cheat me!” as they're walking out of the door, and they're like, “What?” “Don’t cheat me! You came here for a purpose; stay and fulfill that purpose. Don’t go back to your house. If your house is on fire—let it burn to the ground, and be happy about it! It’s that house and everything that represents to you, that’s keeping you bound in the world.” So, Vāmana Dev says, “You’re cheating me— I asked for three—you’ve only given two.” What remains for the third? And, what's Bali Mahārāja do; ātma-nivedanam. Of another bhakti he represents ātma-nivedanam—he gives himself. And what do we learn from this is—that it's what Vāmana Dev want all along. Does He need all Universe? From an expansion of His expansion innumerable Universes come out of the pores of his body, while he is sleeping.
    He needs a Universe? He's gonna be impressed with the Universe, like some foolish person in this world? Ozymandias (poem by Percy Bysshe Shelley) No. He wants what's in Bali Mahārāja's heart. He needs to take the other staff away to get what’s in the heart. That’s all! And that's what he does. And my final statement on this is that; so, Śrīla Trivikram Mahārāj, he offered the 5 miles— one step; the 5 miles— the other step... and what remained for Govinda Maharaj— was his heart. So, when everything—gave everything else: his family, his property—everything. At last, he gave himself; his heart.
    And... so, when he took sannyās, Gurudev named him: Trivikram, which is the other name of Vāmana Dev—tri-vikram; three steps; adbhuta-kram—'He, of wonderful stride'— is Vāmana Avatār. So, in the praṇam, it will reference this sort of concepts. So, those are my final words. And I now turn the floor over to Śrīla Bhakti Vijay Trivikram Mahārāj, the Ācārya of Brazil, appointed by Śrīla Bhakti Sundar Govinda dev-Goswāmī Mahārāj.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Jaya Śrīla Gurudeva, ki-jay! Śrīla Goswāmī Mahārāj, ki-jay! Well, I met Śrīla Govinda Mahārāj in '94, when he went to Brazil first time, and invited by Bhūvan Mohan Prabhu that time. And he went to Brazil to establish... to install the Deity; Mahāprabhu Deity—and it was beautiful.
    I was in another institution that time, but I already had Rohiṇī as my wife. So, Rohiṇī was doing service for Śrīla Śrīdhar Mahārāj for sometimes, and for Śrīla Govinda Mahārāj. And that was funny because in '89 or '90 I was in that institution, and I got a book from a friend Nagendra Prabhu— Japanese guy with a little boy, who fell in a pool...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yes... in the pool, OK.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Then, I was in that institution—these devotee... This Prabhu gave me a book; he is Śrīla Śrīdhar Mahārāj's disciple, and the book is The Search for Sri Kṛṣṇa...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Reality the Beautiful.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah. Then I was reading and devouring the book. Then one sannyāsi came, and said, “If the leader of this mission see you're reading this book, he's gonna be very angry.”
    Then I told him, “Then I quit.” And immediately I packed my things.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Really?
    Trivikram Mahārāj: The same moment. “If someone forbid me to read this book, he is my enemy.” [clapping hands] Then I packed my things. That was some fortune, you know, some fortune came—because I was really appreciating; I was like devouring the book. Then I packed and I moved; then I met Rohiṇī . You see how funny this is.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Then Rohini took me to Śrī Chaitanya Saraswat Maṭh. Then I met Śrīla Govinda Mahārāj in '94. I remember him like, dressing just in pālya, without the
    T-shirt—and doing the first ārati for Mahāprabhu.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Oh, right.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Beautiful—installing the Deity.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Because you shouldn’t wear same clothes at that time.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yes. Very beautiful scene. And slowly I start transferring my activities for Śrī Chaitanya Saraswat Maṭh. Then, in '96 we came to India. And I was in a situation—weird situation. I don’t know—to... to going to—with a drug addict. And, you know, he told me, ”If you don’t go to see our Guru I am gonna beat you!” And I knew he would do that. [laughing] Something like that happened. Then I had to go.[laughing]
    Then I went to Śrī Chaitanya Saraswat Maṭh in '96. Then I saw Śrīla Govinda Mahārāj. I came to him and I was frustrated about my life and many things happened in my life—and I surrounded to him. And I revealed my mind, my life and everything to him, and then he accepted me; I felt that transition. Because I couldn’t see him in some level... But then I could see something extraordinary in front of me, like— suddenly was REAL. Then, I felt he accepted me. Because I surrender, like, you know,
    I told him what I was doing. I don’t need to tell anybody.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Then, he started sending something to you.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yes. Then I invited him to go to Brazil. I said, “Gurudev, why don’t you come to Brazil?
    I have much land; I can give some piece of land for the mission, and you can build your āśram there.”
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: And, he was like, looking at me, smiling; but he never said, “Yes, I go.” But something, you know... I was a little spaced about...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Spaced out.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yes, spaced out; and Rohiṇī managing everything. And then we came to know that he accepted the invitation to go to Brazil in '98.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Ohhh!
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Then he came to Brazil in '98.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yes.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: And, what you are seeing like, it’s out of your kindness, and Vaiṣṇava heart, that you can see this... out of this—what you saw now, about myself. But something was funny and sweet with Gurudev, when he was in Brazil in '98. When he arrived at the āśram, then we could see; I could see, you know, something extraordinary. The whole environment changed.
    I've seen things I've never saw in my life. Like my mother; she is like—a traditional lady from, you know, from Catholic culture or whatever we call that. Then Gurudev arrived, and she is jumping on the gate, and say, “gariṣṭha! Govinda Maharaj!” She didn’t know him. Like—what's going on here? My father, he is a tough guy, you know, like John Wayne; Chuck Norris guy. [laughing] Never cries, you know, then he looked at Gurudev—embraced Gurudev and break in tears; crying. And go every day— cry. I said, “What’s going on here?” [laughing] Something extraordinary is going on. Then I was feeling something; like, some, some... the whole environment, you know,
    was changed. I saw the guys, the 'hillibillis'... [pointing toward audience] if I can say that, you know—they don’t speak English; no? [laughing]
    The 'hillibillis', you know, all over the place. They're very simple and poor people; they start going to the āśram to see Śrīla Govinda Mahārāj.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Aha.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: They are Christians; they have nothing to do with us.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Like spiritual magnet.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: They don’t like us—but they want to see what's going on there. And, you know, they're going in front of Gurudev and doing like, this...[mimic attempt to take picture] and the whole environment became crazy. Then I told, “Gurudev, where is the place you want to give for the mission?” Then we drove him uphill near to the forest—the place I liked—that's near. So, it's a clean place but near to the big forest; huge jungle. Then Gurudev looked, with his stick, you know—it's like his pose—and looking everything, and he said, “This is a beautiful place, but this place is for 'pot-heads'”
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Really?
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah. And he said, “boom-shankar; boom-shankar”
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Aha.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: It’s for—you know what 'pot-heads'... what mean? Smoking Ganja. This place is for people, who likes to smoke Ganja.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Like to get high.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: To get high. And, he didn't like they're doing Ganja, they're smoking pot.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: They smoke the Chillum...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: And they offer it to Lord Śiva, “boom-shankar; boom-shankar.”
    He didn't like that.
    And everybody's laughing because man like that... All I can say that no one was smoking.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Few of them—one or two. [laughing]
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah. Then he came back to the āśram where he was, where Mahāprabhu is now; that was his place.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Aha, the little temple on the hill.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah. Then Gurudev sat, like—majestically...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Majestically.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Majestically in his chair, and he said, “That was a nice place. but I want this āśram and he made... [gesture] like that. And, Rohiṇī immediately start crying because now she lost her āśram. [laughing]
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: That's where she make her livelihood.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: [laughing] Now Rohiṇī crying and I am happy, you know,
    «Ok, I can give you!» And immediately many devotees start saying, “Ok, who is going to be president?” And, you know, managing the situation to kick me out of Rohiṇī's house. That was... And Gurudev like, brilliantly, he is... he understanding everything around.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: He told, “This is my property; Mahāprabhu live here.” This is, you know, His transcendental place...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: but Rohiṇī and Anaṅga Kṛṣṇa, they would be the managers—it's gonna be their names.” Then many people, like, “Ohhh.” Like in a little frustration.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Then you came in 2001. Then what was good for me like, coming to this part of the... of my history; that I was already reading something and getting in touch with the conception. But I mean, you know, like you—you know that.
    Who can understand, really the conception we are taking from out guru-varga and mainly from Śrīla Śrīdhar Mahārāj and Śrīla Govinda Mahārāj. And then translating you was wonderful for me, because I was forcing myself to hear someone who, like—who initiated me into that conception. Maybe you don’t feel that because, you know—you were just working and doing your sevā. But I was there and I was feeling something extraordinary coming to me, translating. Because, when you're translating—this is very tough job—but when you are translating you have to, you know...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Concentrate fully. 00:39;12 Trivikram Mahārāj: Completely; fully! And you are not an easy guy to translate.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: I mean, like—“Did you say what I said? Like chastising me.We got scared. Then was like—was exciting and...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: very nice job to do. Then you came in, I think next year 2004 again, or 2005 (?)
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah, one or two years later.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah. Then we went to South Brazil. You remember?
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Porto Alegre; the Gauchos and the Mate
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah. And it was so funny. Like Śrīla Goswāmī Mahārāj go like—very fast and do everything quickly. And everybody's really nervous, you know, everybody's like, “Wow—he is important person; he is like, a senior Vaiṣṇava.” And, I remember one guy, he was so nervous... so nervous.
    It was rain, but really raining a lot, and the guy went trough the gate with Goswāmī Mahārāj, and he's stuck with an umbrella—and Goswāmī Mahārāj went without umbrella.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: [laughing]
    Trivikram Mahārāj: A the guy was stuck there.Then many things happened like that.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: The keys. Do you remember the keys? Like the guy couldn’t opened the... the...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: The gate; the door. Right. I remember chimarrão...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: The Brazilian way of doing Mate...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Shimahou... [pronunciation of chimarrão]
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Shimahou. I can’t even say it.
    Trivikram Mahārāj:[laughing]
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: But, there is the certain way with a hair—like you can only have trained man, and we had the guy who could do it.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah. They say like, the Shimahou—is the traditional drink from the natives in Brazil. And they make the way that the herbs is up here, and then you pour the water, they say, “It’s like a hair falling.” You know, it's their ways; that's their style there.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: It’s a Brazilian way that's different then the Argentine's, and...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: From Argentine's. Of course!
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Of course!
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Oh, man! [laughing]
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Of course!
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: O-oo! We mention... He told me at that time, and he said, “We're...” Remember, everyone's afraid to make jokes about 9-11. So, he goes, “We have joke in Brazil about it.”
    I go, “Really?” And he goes, ”Yeah—They call up US and they go, 'Halo, this is Brazil, and we are taking responsibility for the 9-11 attacks. As you know the capital of Brazil is Buenos Aires'.” [laughing]
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yes, because many people from America, they—when I say, “Hi, I'am Brazilian.” They go, ”Oh, Buenos Aires.”[laughing] And we love that one.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: [laughing] They love that.[laughing] And they say the joke about Argentinians created by Brazilians is—they say, “What’s the...” Let’s offend some people in Argentina. But I take this to give my daṇḍavats to Śālā Mohinī. But, anyway, they say, “What’s the best deal you can get, and like, you know—financially, by buying Argentine for what is worth, and selling Argentine for what it's thinking is worth?”
    Anyway, let’s not get into that. [laughing]
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Then, what I understand about all my life in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is that how important, you know, some of Gurudev’s... Gurudeva's intimate friends, I can say...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah. Friends and associates.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yes. Friends and associates, that we think that we have; we are in touch with Śrīla Govinda Mahārāj. But I was sure that I couldn’t understand, I mean —99% with my Guru—I couldn't understand him. And the persons who would adjust it to me and digested it to me what was going on in his association—was his associates. And Śrīla Goswāmī Mahārāj was a perfect person. And others also. But he could give me... Many times I went to his room. And, I think, also Bhakti Lalitā. I went many times to Bhakti Lalitā's and said, “ What Gurudev meant with that?” [laughing] And they had to explain to me, you know, like his mood, and now his ways to adjust with us and to preach in his conception. And that was very important for me.
    Then like, slowly, I transferred completely my life to Śrī Chaitanya Saraswat Maṭh, as much as I could. I mean, I cannot say— fully. Like you are giving the example of very high personality as...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Bali Mahārāja.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Bali Mahārāja, but I am trying, you know. One thing I know; that I knew from the beginning—that you never say, “No” for your Guru. That I had some... It was insight. I came from military family...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Aha. Following orders from higher ranks.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: They are like big time, we say—Ninja; they were this Gundas,
    They're big time Gundas. Then, you know, they have some loyalties, some rules—and they never say, “No.” They have some kind of etiquette for the elders. It means, you know, Gurudev is elderly person and he is on the top. Whatever he tells you, you should obey.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Right.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: That was my previous education. I don’t know if everybody's likes that, I mean—in my family.
    But I had that feelings, and that was my fortune. And, I (felt) failed many times. Sorry for my accent.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Failed.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yes. I can’t say that. [laughing]
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Right.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: I'm keeping my Italian accent.[laughing] Then I know, that I couldn’t fulfill his desires, but I tried to say, “Yes” for everything, you know, and try to keep my life in his shelter. But I know how important... and I was just trying.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: And I was doing these things too. These years, he's... Every now and then Gurudev will bring Trivikram Mahārāj to his side, and make him his guard. So, he has to stay with him 24 hours a day. And he used to drive us crazy, sometime. Because Trivikram Mahārāj cannot stand still. So, you’d always paced.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Pace.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: When he... Other guards stay by the door, he's just... He's like on petrol—walking back and forth, back and forth.
    But Gurudev liked that. He wanted his presents to show, that you have to take Śrīla Gurudev seriously—and if you don’t, or you have some challenge or something—this gentlemen is sitting next to him, and you have to deal with him. And, he could put on this game-face that he doesn’t look so friendly. [laughing]
    Trivikram Mahārāj: But there was no action. I was always frustrated, because...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: He wanted something to happen.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah, like, whom you gonna beat here? Like old guy— scanning his teeth...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: [hard laughing]
    Trivikram Mahārāj: “I am the bodyguard here.“
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: And then he go, “Pied Divinaaa” (Divine Feet) [hard laughing]
    Trivikram Mahārāj: [hard laughing] pés há devina...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: pés há devina...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: [laughing]
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Like—don’t touch his feet!
    Trivikram Mahārāj: And one day Gurudev's sitting. I was alone with Gurudeva, right?And then the money-changer came. And then Gurudeva said, “Lock the door. NO ONE is supposed to come.” Now, I know I am in trouble. Like, “NO ONE?”
    I know his room; it's all the time that people coming. Then someone come and knock the door and say, ”Gurudeva, 'such' a person is there.” “OK, open.” Then again...[knocking] “Gurudeva, 'such' person is there at the door.” “OK, open.” Now we have 10 persons in the room. And he said, “NO ONE! Just me, and the money changer.” Then his mother comes to the door, and I don’t know what to do—with two young girls like, teenager girls— carrying the mother. The mother who barely can stand.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Walk.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Walk on her own legs. And then I told, “Gurudev, your mother is there.” [laughing] And Gurudev said, “What she wants?” I said, “I don’t know.” [laughing] Then everybody's, “Open! Open! Open!” And Gurudev turns to everybody, and say, “Kichu buddhi habena” for me. I didn’t know what's meaning in Bengali. But someone, a friend... some friend of mine came and translate, like, “He have no brain” It's something like that. “You know, my mother comes to the door and why he doesn’t open immediately?”
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Right. I know. [laughing]
    Trivikram Mahārāj: And then the mother came.
    That was the... And, I remember Bhakti Lalitā say, “I don’t do anymore... What was that? “I don’t do anymore 'fan and light'.” Like, turning on the light.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Oh, right... Because, Gurudev always goes, “Make off the light.” And five people jump up and they touch the wrong switch—they turn the fan...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yes.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: TV off, and he is like, “Hah???”
    Trivikram Mahārāj: No... but in India you have a panel...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: It's like—with 20 switches.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Like 200 switches. And you need to touch everyone.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: And you don’t know which one is which. They never do it twice the same way.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah. And every time you are there—some mystery. Some electrician goes there and changes it.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Change it, right.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: After memorizing all this staff.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Right.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: But in Brazil was very intense—very intense experience, you know. I never more got that. Like, you know, someone... I already read Śrī Chaitanya-charitāmṛta, and then you have, you know... That was my feelings.
    Maybe, most probably I was 'chickening out'. But, I mean, there was someone from Chaitanya-charitāmṛta living, alive; living there.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: As Śrīla Gurudev...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yes.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yes, right. Yeah.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Someone from there, from Chaitanya-charitāmṛta manifesting.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: That type of personality.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yes.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Stepped out the pages, into your life.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yes, and living there in the āśram, and doing his... his līlā or whatever.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah, it’s true... it's...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah. That was the feeling.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: It's true. It is true.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: And everybody had some feelings.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Right.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Extraordinary feelings. And then the boy fell... That was like, the the most important.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: And didn't that went on the day when you give everything? Something happened.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: I can’t remember, but yeah.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Do you know Lalitā? [looking into audience; Bhakti Lalitā trying to answer; inaudible]
    Trivikram Mahārāj: No, no, no...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: The baby. The boy...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: The boy...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: The boy fall into the water.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: The boy fall into the water...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: And drowns... [Bhakti Lalitā; inaudible]
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Because Gurudev told me...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Bhakti Lalitā shaved at that time.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Gurudev told me, that he said about you, “He's just given me everything.“
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Everyone has come here in joyful celebration and a little kid fallen in the pound and drowned—died. He is dead.
    Like this little children we have here; that’s why we should be careful.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Completely careful. Yeah.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: We're letting them playing and everything. The child fell in the pound that’s only this big... [measuring gesture] and drowned. So, there's a dead child laying there, and Gurudev... You tell what he told you. What he told me, he said, “I said to Kṛṣṇa, 'What do I tell them now? I don’t know what to say; he just gave everything; all. We're having a big celebration. What am I supposed to tell them?' I don’t know what to say. Please, tell me what to say!?” And then, the Ananda...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah, Ananya Bhakti—she took charge. Because she is a dentist, so, she knows all the first procedures.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: First aid.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah. Then she told the father, you know. I was taking prasādam with the father.
    The father was the guy who gave me the first book. Then, she told him,“You give the massage to his heart, and I will breathe; then we do five times CP, whatever it's called...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: CPR.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: CPR. Then after some time, Rohiṇī started chanting the mantra with everybody; Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. Then like, after maybe five or four—five...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Minutes?
    Trivikram Mahārāj:Breaths...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Oh, breaths...
    Trivikram Mahārāj:Yes. The boy started to vomiting the water; coughing and pushing the water out. And then Gurudeva told us, like... Someone at that time, someone went to tell him and he said, Gurudev was very silent and then he pray to the Lord, “Why you are doing that?” And then, the boy came alive.
    And Gurudev always said, “Ananya Bhakti saved the boy!”
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Right. In that, he's not taking the credit. Kṛṣṇa answered Gurudev’s prayer—it's what happened. And later at... what’s her name— Cesar Nay... Ney...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Neza Cesar.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Neza Cesar, at her house, that program that evening; I see that boy again, when Bhūvana showing me how to put passion fruit on chocolate ice-cream...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: OK, this is...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: He loved to eat...
    Trivikram Mahārāj: This is his, like a... his specialty...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah. And the kids go, ”That’s the kid!”
    Trivikram Mahārāj: No brain damage after fifteen minutes drown.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: How old is he now?
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Oh, he's maybe now 17, 20... or something...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: 15, 17 years old—like totally normal. You know, it’s what they call—a miracle. But the miracle was the Gurudev; not just going, like, “Oh my Lord...” Not like that, saying, “What’s wrong with You Kṛṣṇa!? What’s wrong with You!? He just gave everything; we are having a big celebration. What am I supposed to tell them now? You tell me what do I do.”
    Devotee can express that kind of anger, loving anger; Kṛṣṇa likes that. That His devotee can say something like that. And then Kṛṣṇa say, ”All right!” Balarām says this. It’s goes, like—when they're all lying fainted on the banks of Yamunā—He goes, “This are not Ayodhyā- monkeys, these are not Vaikuṇṭha people; these are Your beloved devotees in Vṛndāvan. Stop this play! You are braking their hearts! And then Kṛṣṇa's, like, “All right!” [laughing] And, Viśvanāth says, ”Why does He do these things? “ Because, He's; bhāva-grāhī-janārdana—He's above either. And He knows what's like, regularly, going in your heart. That taste is also nice, but if He puts you in great difficulty; your heart will go to a deepest place and making offering from there— that He can’t refuse.
    That’s why He goes there. He is addicted to Heart.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: And I also remember how much we...
    I can’t say in English, but how much, how many mistakes we made. Like now, I remember you've got bitten.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah. Oh, those bugs.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Some bugs. We have some birds; they are coming in summer time; they start arriving in September -October, and they have some bugs, some lice... and, it’s very difficult to...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: They burrow into your skin.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: and if you're light-skin it’s like, even worse. They like American blood. [laughing]
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: [laughing]
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Then Goswāmī Mahārāj was really... his hand was full of bites and staff.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Right. And they live inside you; it’s really disgusting.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah, it's disgusting.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: I have to move out of that room where their cat... he stay. It’s obviously his place where my chair is. So, I just use him as a cushion for my feet.[laughing] And he is warm— and it’s cold there, so, I put my feet in cat’s assister; I keep my feet on the cat. And then like, everything was in saffron. You don’t know how beautiful the place is, that Rohiṇī... She walks around and ask, ” Is room 5 clean? Change the sheets.”
    You know, she is like a Commando. They have a fireplace in these little bungalows—as we got to that new place with Śrīla Maharaj the other day; the Bamboo House-stop, blah blah blah... Then they have the fire; there is that tree with a special tinder that’s perfect for staring fires. When you want to make a fire in a fireplace at the Kṛṣṇa Śakti āśram—it takes one match. And they’ve gat the matches there too. So, you go—you take your match: Chhhhhh... [match-lightenning sound and gesture] Go like this—just put it there at the bottom and it goes: Pffffff, the tinder lights; the next level lights the next level. In three minutes you have a perfectly burning fire, that— unless you are a total 'moron'— you will be able to control it for two hours.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: And another thing what Gurudev told about those Pine trees... they give thous... thous...
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Oh, yeah! They're giving this special like, Pine cones.
    Trivikram Mahārāj: Yeah, they have some fruits. And Gurudev told, “They're our sādhus in meditation.” Gurudeva said that.
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Wow!
    Trivikram Mahārāj: They're all sādhus. And when Gurudev was coming downhill, Bhūvan Mohan, he stopped the car and he pointed the Temple and the area.
    And then Gurudeva said, you know, “They're out; the whole environment—the whole nature here.”
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: At the Kṛṣṇa Śakti āśram?
    Trivikram Mahārāj: The area... “They are praying to me; they want Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And without the mercy of Mahāprabhu they wouldn’t get it; hat’s why Mahāprabhu came here.”
    Goswāmī Mahārāj: Hare Kṛṣṇa!
    Trivikram Mahārāj: That was beautiful!
    Goswāmī Mahārāj:... Mahārāj, that’s the perfect note to end this evening's discussion on. How—and that’s again—Śrīla Gurudev was never a 'poser'; the self-promoting advance Guru's 'relishing mellows'. That’s all bullshit, alright!—clear and simple. Or, as my father would say 'horseshit'. Because, you know, 'bullshit' we worship, right?
    So, it's 'horse-shit', right? Gurudev didn’t play those games. He told someone once, when they asked him about some spiritual practice, he goes, ”Do you want me to make a show? Shall I make a show for you, and then you’ll feel like you’ve got the Guru?” Right? So, we know, that real Vaiṣṇavas like Puṇḍarīk Vidyānidhi, they're keeping what they’ve got— suppressed. Svarūpa Dāmodar— suppressed. That's why Śrīvās Ṭhākur teases him. And Mahāprabhu like, ”Oh, o—don’t tease Svarūp.” Then it all comes out. So, Gurudev— he is keeping it suppressed, within, “I am just a simple village boy; I was naughty boy before. Now, I'm good boy.” And all these kind of things. He's, actually telling you the truth. They think, “Oh, he's playing or being like that.” He's, actually, cleverly telling you what the truth is. And once we're in Geneva with Gurudev. And we go to the Vedānta Society or the Rāmā Kṛṣṇa... whenever.
    And there is this Indian there, and he is going like, ”I'am the only swami in all of Switzerland. And I have a PhD in bullshit.” [laughing] Right? So, then Gurudev go like, ” Oh, really?” So, he invites Gurudev for this Ekādaśī. I remember; as I recall, anyway... So, we're having this program, and what he does when he should be introducing Gurudev—he is telling everyone how qualified he is, “And I’ve got my matriculation from: mrng, mrng, mrng. [funny sound] And I’ve got my MA [master degree]from here. And I got PhD [doctorate] from here; and I did this and I did that. And I'm the only person, and I am this and I'm that... And, like.... And then he goes this all thing, “And now I introduce the swami... sami... what is? Eeee... Govinda from, you know... the Bengal.” [laughing]
    And then Gurudev like, you know, with this guy—he goes, ”I'm not so qualified. Actually, I am just the village boy from little village in Bengal. I was not... I have no higher education. I only went to, maybe, like 5th grade, or something.” He didn’t even go to the high school. So, Gurudev starts telling, how unqualified he is, “And Prabhu here—swamiji, is extremely qualified in so many ways. I could never hope to be qualified as he is. I'm just a simple village boy; so, you forgive me for not being so qualified.“ And, then he said, “But my Guru Mahārāj is very qualified.” This is Gurudev. He goes, ”My Guru Mahārāj is very qualified. And by his grace he took pity on this unqualified person, and extended something to me.”
    Then he quoted the śloka; like, maybe about the gratitude of disciple for Guru; how rare it is to find Guru in the world, even more rare to find the qualified disciple. Then, he talk a little bit more about his disqualifications, and quoted another śloka, another śloka. Long story short— with each śloka that Gurudev quoted—and it's heavy Sanskrit; not the simple staff that everyone... You know; yadā yadā hi dharmasya...(Bg:4.7)I mean, that’s beautiful. But I mean to say like—heavy; esoteric; loooong Sanskrit, you know... Every time Gurudev... Because the man is like this...[mimic the posture of proud man] like Cock (peacock). Right? As Saraswatī Ṭhākur said. He is talking about, “The Leg of a Cock.” That’s was the materialist is; they're so proud—they stride! And he says, “All you do is go, Phummm!— and knock them over. Done!”
    But they are strutting around like proud 'Cocks. But Gurudev—one śloka — the man set goes.[expressing unease] Two ślokas... three... four... twenty ślokas... After around thirty ślokas he is like... [mimic increasing discomfort] And Gurudev, he is like, “I'm not so qualified.” Now, the guy's head is down...[visibly disturbed and distressed as Gurudev continue] “I'm not so qualified.” “Hello, I am not as qualified as you.” [laughing] And then he quotes another śloka. And then, in the end the guy's like…[mimick distressed, deflated and defeated] And, I said, “Gurudev, that was like, THE BEST! I’ve ever seen. In the name of praising that man, you are annihilated him and showed the world what the 'pompous ass' he is. “ You know... that is His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhakti Sundar Govinda dev-Goswāmī Mahārāj. And, that Govinda Mahārāj—who knows everything—he selected Bhakti Vijay Trivikram Mahārāj to be the Ācārya of Brazil. Need I say more—end of story! Hare Kṛṣṇa! Will meet again. Same time. Same... that channel. [laughing] Hare Kṛṣṇa!