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  • Kirtan: Enthusiasm and Dignity. To become dependent on Krishna

    1. Compassionate religion
    2. Sudarshan chakra is always protecting the devotees
    3. Dependency on the Lord
    4. Kirtan in the times of Guru Maharaj and Gurudev
    5. Squeezing the Holy Name
    6. There is no substitute in devotion (DIY)
    7. Constantly reconceiving the Infinite
    8. Kirtan is not a competition
    9. Infinite mixing with the finite
    10. Gokula is a satellite of the real spiritual world
    11. Adhoksaja – beyond our senses, the reason for them.
    12. Always and only Krishna
    13. Faithosphere
    14. Bird flying an infinite sky

    Theistic Media Studios - Kirtan: Enthusiasm and Dignity. To become dependent on Krishna

    00:00
    Author: Bhakti Sudhir Goswami Cycle: Theistic Media Studios Uploaded by: dinashraya Created at: 13 July, 2015
    Duration: 01:07:16 Date: 2015-07-10 Size: 61.59Mb Place: Gupta Govardhan Chiang Mai Downloaded: 437 Played: 2102

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    00:00:01
    Goswami Maharaj: So, Prabhu, are there some question?
    Dinashraya Prabhu: Yeh, Maharaj. First, may You say, may You tell us little us about your preaching program in China?
    Goswami Maharaj: Oh, sure. [Laughing]. Three knew initiates, Harinam initiates. One lady’s husband (Jayanty — her husband) took Harinam. Also Dhruva Prabhu - his wife took Harinam, very nice lady, and a new young girl, [who… All first is Phulendu. Then Indrany. And last this young girl, who very compassionate toward everyone and following vegetarianism strictly, sometime [fears] and very concerned about other living beings and [pleeing] under behove for compassion and mercy. So her name Koruna, Koruna Moi.
    00:01:28
    Really means Radharani is full of compassion. Krishna consciousness is the ultimate compassion for everyone. Not just what is called humane in the contemporary world.
    But kripambuddhi yat paraduhkha duhkhi . The vayshnava’s sadness, unhappiness is to see suffering on account of the absence of Krishna or lack of a connection with Krishna.
    And we see also these devotees enthusiastic to establish some places within the existing system there where can be an excess point for people to come in connection with Krishna consciousness. So, and our devotees behaving very sweetly and preaching nicely, and every night someone coming to the center showing interest. So, very happy about it, inspired about it. So in a difficult circumstance they’re showing, what can be done, just as…
    00:03:00
    When Bhakti Abhaya Narayan Maharaj [myself] first met with Shrila Guru Maharaj in Gaura Purnima of 1979, and he heard that we were preaching in eastern Europe in so-called [kaminous] countries. You’ve heard of that. [Laughing]. And Russia, going to Russia sometimes. And Guru Maharaj, he was very happy about it, and he said, “Oh! If you’re giving some difficult seva, you get more mercy”. So you should consider yourselves really fortunate, that some difficult seva came to you. He was, gave us a very inspiring talk, like… It was like thematically similar to Kunti’s
    “vipadah santu tah sasvat tatra tatra djagat guro
    bhavato darsanam yat syat apunar bhava-darsanam”
    00:04:09
    When devotees find themselves in situations, that are… the environment is [at odds] in extreme way what they were trying to do whether [непонятно] socially, politically otherwise. They may become the recipients of even greater amount quality quantity of grace.
    I was remembering today in “Chaytanya-Bhagavat”, it’s interesting, and in “Charitamritam” in Mahaprabhu’s pastimes. He is Svayam Bhagavan. But because at the social-political situation sometimes devotees will come and advise Him not to go on this road at this time, where there some local relative conflict going on.
    So you would think the Absolute, He doesn’t, you know, that being that person, for Whom a blade of grass doesn’t move without His will, that this would be irrelevant to Him.
    00:05:29
    We could chalk it up to aprakrita-lila. You know, having the drama and the tension, humanness as it were as an element in divine pastimes to make some drama, some tension, some increased intensity. But Mahaprabhu will remind them, He will say like… When there the… for example, they’re told… Mahaprabhu’s just taking sannyas, He’s in extreme ecstatic state doing kirtan everywhere with everyone, beginning with Keshava Bharati, but including everyone else, everyone He meets. He is always doing kirtan and at some point they [have to right] on the boat in a dangerous area. And so the boat-man, hi is saying like, “Can you keep the kirtan down?” You know. [Laughing]. Because that will… [He’s saying]: “First of all we are in a place where there crocodiles, tigers”. It’s like the 24 Parganas section of Bengal, what’s now known as a… So he saying — the environment is dangerous [to begin] with crocodiles and tigers. But also you’re going to a track pirates and rovers of all. So he’s trying to tell them not to have kirtan.
    00:07:00
    And Mahaprabhu keeps His wildly ecstatic, the boat is ready to sink and they’re trying to… the devotees listen to that boat-man and say, “Oh! Okay, all right”.
    And Mahaprabhu tells them, “What!” He said, “Can’t you see My sudarshan chakra? Look! Don’t you see sudarshan chakra spinning, always protecting the devotees in all circumstances?”
    Like in Ambarish-Durvasa-pastimes and others saying, “Don’t you see sudarshan? Don’t… Why are you worried? Mukunda, sing!” [Laughing].
    So, it’s an element in the pastimes of Mahaprabhu, it’s an element in the pastimes of Krishna. And we see it’s an element in the pastimes of the modern day Krishna-consciousness movement. That the devotees, their faith is tasted in different ways to see, are they…
    When Mahaprabhu turns to that group, He says, “What did you bring with you for this tour?” And they all answer, “Nothing. You are our only wealth”. He was very happy to hear that.
    00:08:32
    They didn’t say, “Oh, I brought a little something just in case”. [Laughing]. No, they said, “We didn’t bring anything. We just with You. You are everything to us”. He was very happy about that. That doesn’t mean like, you know, we shall not be [tact for at] times.
    When Nrisimha Chaytanya Prabhu was entering immigration in England and they said to him, “How do you maintain yourself?” He said, “Begging” [Laughing]. Simple-hearted vayshnav. They didn’t give him a visa. And they said, “In our country we do not glorify beggars”. [Laughing]. He said, “By begging”.
    But Saraswati Thakur like the begging of Gaudiya Math. It’s… As Guru Maharaj said, “When the devotees ask someone for something or for donation, whatever it might be, that giving that person an opportunity actually. It’s really an opportunity, that is being extended to that person, to come and get some nirguna connection with the service of Mahaprabhu, which is inconceivably wonderful and supremely beneficial for everyone.
    00:10:09
    So whenever our devotees are operating in special circumstances like that, they get some special grace from the Lord. And it’s evidence there and elsewhere, but particularly there.
    “ananyas cintayanto mam
    ye janah parjupasate
    tesam nityabhiyuktanam
    yoga-ksemam vahamy aham”
    In the Gita, where Krishna gives us assurance, that, “If My devotees are need of something or [apparently] lacking some parafernaliya, facility, whatever it might be, I personally compensate”.
    And we’ve heard the story, when someone Prabhu told, his name was Arjun Acharja, some commentary thought: that’s not right, that someone interpretate, that the Lord will personally do this, that He’ll serve, he didn’t like that idea, that Kris… and striking it out, that the Lord[al] personally bare that burden carry, what is needed.
    00:11:33
    And we’re told: two boy-shop to deliver, I don’t know, what it was, — fire, water — something to his wife. And they were bruised and bitten. And she said:
    — Who did this to you?
    And they said:
    — Your husband.
    — What?! He is so cruel!
    — Yes, he beat us! He beat us! [When you striking … with this pen], he is beating us.
    So you could understand, when Krishna says, “I will personally supply that”. He means — He will personally supply the necessities of His devotees. Goptritve varan. Believe in that! The principle, anga of sharanagati, to orderly offer oneself as… And become dependent upon Krishna and Krishna’s mercy for everything. It’s a whole mark and basis of pure devotion.
    00:12:49
    So sometimes we don’t know really, substantially, what we’ve come in connection with. Just by it having heard so many things we retain our own modified version of what we think that is. However glorious or wonderful [it’s tell], it’s our own tainted by our own lack of believe, faith full embrace. But not’s to be expected we are knewly recruited section, we can expect that. Sādhau saṅgaḥ svato vare . For our faith will be increased.
    Where are this coming from? If you can just move it to an… [what doesn’t]… Come to me! It’s good incense. [Laughing]. If you use it out doors, it’s making the whole area fragrant. You can understand, it’s high quality. Hare Krishna!
    00:14:14
    So Guru Maharaj told me, the beginning of preaching on his behove in western world, that Shrila Swami Maharaj Prabhupad is no doubtle… how to say… doubtlessly, without a doubt, “Please [was] what you’re doing as I am, my Guru Maharaj, and if you will go on in this way sincerely, then Mahaprabhu will supply all the perefernalia and resources necessary for your seva”. We have to have faith in that.
    Yes. Some question?
    Shyam Vilas Prabhu: Maharaj, I would like to ask about kirtan.
    Goswami Maharaj: About kirtan?
    Shyam Vilas Prabhu: Kirtan, yes. Today you met with Abhiram Thakur Prabhu, told him that kirtan was especial today, tonight, before the lecture.
    Goswami Maharaj: Yeah! It may be special every night. [Laughing].
    Shyam Vilas Prabhu: Yes, but I …
    Goswami Maharaj: But I felt something like some extra lift.
    Shyam Vilas Prabhu: Yes, you know, I also heard, when he arrived here, couple months ago, he…
    Goswami Maharaj: He — who?
    Shyam Vilas Prabhu: Abhiram Thakur Prabhu.
    Goswami Maharaj: Abhiram Prabhu.
    Shyam Vilas Prabhu: Yes.
    00:15:43
    In Lahta we usually do program a little bit differently from here, like here. We have big kirtan after Gurudev-parikrama and kirtan after Tulasi-parikrama, and also after “Hari haraye…” like twenty minutes Ananda Moi can sing. And I heard, that you said, I heard it from other people, that: try to do it minimally, if it’s not special occasion. So why, if it’s yuga-dharma…
    Goswami Maharaj: All it…Because I recall the kirtan as it was in the time of Guru Maharaj. He is my Guru. There is a way they did kirtan at the Math in his presence. So I assume that, that is was pleasing to him. Because I saw, that in his time, if there was something not right, even someone playing the karatals too laud, remember, Guru Maharaj is on his veranda, [here was] the nat-mandir, where the kirtan was. So, it was like 10 meters away, he heard everything. If there was something, he… that disturbed him for whatever reason, he’s sent someone down to correct it. So, there, you know, what rains are like you control a horse, [there were tide rains] on the kirtan.
    00:17:15
    So, that’s for me. Sometimes in the aftermath of Guru Maharaj and Gurudevs time I would [hear something say] a kirtan at the Math and look… and that I might think: [“Might not beat until he please Shrila Guru Maharaj]. I look at Shrila Gurudev and he would say, “They are enthusiastic”. [Laughing] Like that.
    Like don’t try to correct, just let it go. That’s he would say, “They are enthusiastic”. So in Guru Maharaja’s time they didn’t say “Hari bol!” for a half an our. “Hari bol! Hari bol! Hari bol! Hari bol! Hari bol!” you know. But if someone wants to do that, I’m not gonna stop’em. But that was not [in] “Jaya!” everything. Anything, put “Jaya!” to anything and everything. That was not the fashion. Or to sing “Jaya Guru Maharaj! Jaya Gurudev!” at the end of every single type of kirtan. At the end of like Guru-type — “Gurudev! Kripa bindu diya…” — “Jay Gurudev!” appropriate, but at the end of every single song — not.
    But as Gurudev say, “If they are enthusiastic…” We could be doing worst things, [laughing] then having kirtan, extra kirtan.
    00:18:48
    So, it depends on the program. I’m speaking in particular days. Today as I’m not speaking and devotees are incline to do more kirtan — they may. But another thing to be mindful of… is…
    You know, Shrila Swami Maharaj, famous in one of his purports in “Chaytanya-charitamritam”, he saw, and I did it also as a brahmachary, we had this kirtans so called. We’re everyone in to the… look like they went for swim, clothes were all dransed and swat and… you know. And he said in his purport, by this he said, “They may increase their bile secretion, but they will not increase their love of Krishna.”
    So, sometimes as young men we were using kirtan, you could say, a sort of passion and release. It’s not described anywhere, that kirtan should be of that quality, that it just an outlet for passion. So there are so many things, but as again devotees are enthusiastic, genuinely enthusiastic. Not to make a show, or to play, or… But in service, service to the Holly Name. We have no objection.
    00:20:18
    But I can also understand, that Guru Maharaja’s time, that was his time, [things we’re done a particular way], things, that’s now, so many years ago, thirty years ago. And devotees, if they did some particular type of kirtan in the presence of Shrila Gurudev and he didn’t object, I’m not going to object either.
    But sometimes we should think, where this something come from? We had this experience previously, that singing particular song. Why they were sung?
    Like once Prabhupad was in a difficult situation, and his health was not good, so many things. So, devotees thought, his life was in danger and they ask, “If there something we can do just…, something we can sing or say for your protection?” [So he told], “Oh, you can chant these, you know, prayers to Nrisimhadev.”
    00:21:44
    So, later we saw that published as “Prayer for the protection of the spiritual master.” You understand, that it became label [that way]. So if there someone joined [не понятно], “This is the prayer for the protection of the spiritual waster.” But it’s, you know, Mahaprabhu’s sang this certain prayers in front of Nrisimha and it’s in “Chaytanya-charitamritam”, and the other part of “Dasa-avatar-stotram” of Jayadev Goswami.
    And but Prabhupad said in that sense, “Oh, you can sing this”, but they took it as labeled, now part of our tradition, — “The prayer for the protection of the spiritual master”. And then it became song at the end of every arati, that that must be there, find it must be at picture in the altar of Nrisimhadev.
    When actually that may [of] just sort of inadvertently become a tradition. So if certain things inadvertently become tradition, than who knows what it would be like in, you know, generation after generation.
    00:23:04
    But so, we should be, when I [come to this things], I think: “[Air on the side of coushen], be more conservative, than introducing things or making [assumptions] about it.
    But as I said, this particular situation, what was excepted in the time in the presence of Shrila Gurudev, he didn’t object to — I don’t object to it.
    But if you listen to him sing, than you’ll be on solid ground. If you sing the melody he sang, the way he conducted the songs or the kirtans.
    We told everything “adou arpita pascad krieta”. Shridhar Swami, the famous commentary of “Srimad-bhagavatam” says, “For something to qualify as devotion, beginning and middle, and end — it’s for Krishna, and offering to Krishna”. So we can think about that.
    You know this is a level of enthusiasm that is appreciable and then there’s just going wild, which starts getting in to a gray area of are we using this to serve some lower purpose, instead of offering ourselves in service of a higher purpose. Someone can be a thoughtful about that.
    There is some other question?
    00:25:35
    Shyam Vilas Prabhu: Maharaj, what did you mean saying “they didn’t say ‘Jay!’ to everything”, when you described in the beginning of your answer?
    Goswami Maharaj: I’m saying it’s not a fashion. I’m giving an example. In Guru Maharaja’s time, (imagine!), in his Math they weren’t singing “Jaya Guru Maharaj!” At the end of “Kripa bindu diya” they would sing “Jaya Gurudev!” That came later. In his lifetime they weren’t singing “Jaya Guru Maharaj!” at his own Math. So we shall give “Jay!” to the vayshnavas.
    Are you asking me a question, I’m giving you an answer. So, [are we to sum]: in Guru Maharaja’s time he is upstairs, you know, ten meters away from the nut-mandir. Does he know how to do kirtan properly or not? The Gardian of Devotion, the Bhakti Raksak, the holder, you know, Saraswati Thakur’s vois, does hi understand, what’s a proper way to do sing and have kirtan or not?
    00:27:02
    But it’s 30 years later and they are enthusiastic. [Laughing].
    So don’t think I’m telling people not to be enthusiastic. [Laughing]. But just, with some dignity, enthusiasm with some dignity. Just whatever is going on that’s no need to change it. Put it that way. I’m not the satisfied, neither is Avadhut Maharaj.
    Avadhut Maharaj understand, sometimes like in festival time to [amp] things up a little bit. There’s many people have come, he’s cleverly t… He wants to engage [gets] all the people involved.
    So he is adapted particular strategy to do, has some purpose.
    00:28:17
    Once some devotee, who could read sanskrit and bengaly, he was reading all these books, he was telling about apabram-sikh and upa-sikh, and different, you know, sphota-vad — all this different descriptions about taking the name of Krishna. You can chant aloud japa, softly, aspirated, manasik (mental) — many different ways. And he asked Guru Maharaj, “Which way is the best?” And Guru Maharaj [quoted] the six canto of the Bhagavatam: “Vaykuntha nama graham nam.” He said, “It must have some spiritual character. It’s not that loud, soft, medium, aspirated, that one of those is the best. It must have some spiritual quality to it.” He said, “That, what is important.”
    So in the kirtan also: if it’s enthusiastic, loud, longer, shorter, — what is the quality of it — is the most important thing.
    So, we also understand in Saint-Petersburg people are coming [] program [and we can a lot of people come]. And they come — we want to have kirtan probably longer. So, not everyone comes at the same time. So, that they get some opportunity to participate in the kirtan.
    00:29:46
    But we see, there are places in India, where they boast of having twenty for our kirtan. What is the quality of that kirtan? We can understand, what it’s quality by how it’s described: twenty four our kirtan. So it special quality is it’s longevity, that it goes on all day and night. So the emphasis is not on the quality of it, but on the quantity of it. They are boasting it, “We do this all day and night. We’ll chant a greater quantity and that’s how we’ll get quality”. That’s one of the floors of the pracrita-sahajaism.
    One devotee [have felt pray to that told] Shrila Prabhupad Swami Maharaj, “Haridas Thakur is the namacharya”. And these were his exact words. He didn’t say, “We must follow him.” Interestingly, these were exact what’s he said, “We must imitate him. And if we imitate him and chant three lakhs of Krishna-nam, three hundred thousands of names, Krishna must give us prem.”
    00:31:24
    So he said, “I’m asking your blessings, that I can find a real Guru.” He’s asking Prabhupad, “Please, give Your Blessings, that I can find a real connection!” [Well] they’ll tell me to chant one hundred thousand of names or three hundred thousand, then Krishna must give me a prem”. The quality of vay… it’s not an issue. Just when you achieve this quantity, then you get Krishna-prem! How foolish!
    Sometimes Mahaprabhu cannot say one name. Why? He is Krishna-prem personified, He can’t chant one… He… “Jag-ga” — can’t say “Jagannath”. What is His problem?
    Rupa Goswami saying, “What there is in one name?” The sweet “krisneti varna dvayi”, you know, “karna-krodha-kadambini ghatayate karnarbudhebhyah spriham.” You want millions of tangs, millions of ears to capture the sweetness of that sound.
    00:32:50
    So, we want to serve the Holy Name, we not trying to squeeze something out of Holy Name for our lower purpose. But we’re trying to offer ourselves and our energy in the service of the… purpose of the Holy Name.
    If sometime someone came to Guru Maharaj and say, “Oh, such and such devotee, he leads very nice kirtan” or something. Guru Maharaj would be worried about that person. Oh, so he can understand: some kind of a show is going on.
    Once there praising one devotee for his kirtan, one of the devotees of the Math, Guru Maharaj said, if someone said: “His kirtan is so sweet!” Guru Maharaj said: “His argument is sweeter.” What did that mean? “His argument is sweeter.”
    00:34:06
    What did Saraswati Thakur said, “I’m not interested to hear…” Guru Maharaj is our Guru of the Chaytanya Saraswat Math, what comes down… What is, you know, most famous event. If Saraswati Thakur stopping someone from singing, who is a known kirtaniya, and Saraswati Thakur saying, “I’m not interested to hear sweet tune.”
    That is our Guru Maharaj. You must have heard some tape of him singing. We have some. You can hear them sometimes.
    I’m saying, for safest we hear, there’re tapes of Gurudev, many of Gurudev’s singing, arati-song, this song, that — many things. To follow his way of doing that is safest. And then you can understand: if there were things, that are current or invoke, that he doesn’t do, they’ve come from somewhere else, they’ve been introduced by others, someone other, than Shrila Gurudev or Shrila Guru Maharaj.
    00:35:42
    But as I said, Shrila Gurudev, he didn’t make an issue out of it. He didn’t want to dump in the enthusiasm of devotees. He didn’t see it as being harmful. But he knows, if Guru Maharaj was alive, he might have to be told to stop it, cause Guru Maharaj has a different level of sensitivity.
    So, all of these things have to be taken in the consideration, in time, place and circumstance. Sometimes any attempt, that someone makes, we’re happy about that.
    Like when the pe… When the child is trying to say [their] first words or [their humming saying]. It they’re might be a little nonsense the…, it’s… they’re to be encouraged. They’re in the child stage, they’re being encouraged. But can’t ever use that [an] excuse, forever, in the child stage. At some point they should be some maturity. And with that comes a little refinement, dignity.
    00:37:28
    Is this clock off by an hour?
    Devotee: Yes, yes.
    Goswami Maharaj: Yeah, I mean just leave it. So it’s off by one hour or it’s off by a year or…
    Devotee: No, … twenty-thirteen.
    Goswami Maharaj: Ok. [The year 20.13 or 8.13]?
    Devotee: [8.13]
    Goswami Maharaj: Oh, o’key. It’s when I make sure I’m close. And it’s 2015, when I… [laughing] When I [want ask] checked [laughing]. Understand. O’key. Military time.
    00:38:25
    I’ve told many times, when I met Krishnadas Babaji Maharaj, when searching for him, I’d met him before, but the time I searched him out at Chaytanya Saraswat Math and I told him or I told Guru Maharaj actually. And that, later that meeting that… the way of doing the kirtan was vanishing perhaps with the disciples of Saraswati Thakur. So there maybe some value to making somebody’s recordings. But when Babaji Maharaj saw the tape recorder, I put there, and he was a little disturbed and he said, “The important thing is that you chant Hare Krishna!” Like there is no substitute for that. There is no substitute. In devotion you can have a substitute: a family member, a child [не понятно], who can do it for you. So we’re asked to chant.
    And under, you know, from the heard under the influence of Guru and vayshnav.
    00:39:57
    But we believe, that the suddha-nam is the domain of the Guru-varga. Guru Maharaj, Gurudev’s idea is that Guru Maharaj, he is can take suddha-nam, Krishna-nam and we’re serving him. He is serving him and leading the group of servitors. It will be our best and we’ll take the minimum. Our best interest — to serve the higher vayshnava. That’s the system, the Gaudia system.
    Still I think the kirtan this evening was nice, [laughing], and had some brightness, some… the right amount of enthusiasm. [Laughing].
    It’s not a contest. We’ve seeing, sometimes [we’re in] Bhaktivinod Thakur’s place svananda sukhada kunja and so many Gaudia Maths had come and our Math. And they singing. And each Math naturally they’re to sing them song, they give like their best singer, best mridanga-player.
    00:41:27
    But after wile I start to [think]: look like a little bit of a competition. Who can sustain a note long, who can sing “Gurudev”, hold it the longest? And then I saw, “What is this?” Our idea is not to draw attention to the individual’s skills, but to conduct to pleasing kirtan for the Lord and His devotees.
    Any other question?
    Dinashraya Prabhu: Maharaj, Narottam Prabhu and Hildo [Osvaldo]. And you their dandavat-pranams, they send.
    Goswami Maharaj: Hare Krishna.
    Dinashraya Prabhu: This question from Gupta Govardhan, little simple-hearted question, it about Krishna-lila. It’s said in our scriptures, that Krishna-lila is eternal. And when Krishna finished His lila in one universe, then He moves into another universe.
    Goswami Maharaj: Yes.
    00:43:02
    Dinashraya Prabhu: And also it said in the scriptures, that there are limitless and limitless universes.
    Goswami Maharaj: Yes.
    Dinashraya Prabhu: And the entire material creation. So the question: when Lord enjoy in His own spiritual world, if He have to move from one universe to another?
    Goswami Maharaj: I think that I get the idea. [mou] It’s mysterious, it’s mystical. It’s generally we take it there is Goloka Vrindavan, Gokula Vrindavan. So some, and by “some” I mean spiritual expert, they have the opinion, that Goloka Vrindavan is the original, and then Gokula — the prapanca-lila, that means the pastimes in this world or like a satellite of that and that going through the material world from universe to universe till the windup of the universe.
    00:44:00
    But Guru Maharaj and [have] Bhaktivinod Thakur, Jiva Goswami to present another concept. In “Brahma-samhita” it’s hinted at and there some corroborating evidence in ‘Garga-samhita”, that when Krishna decides to bring His pastimes, the prapanca-lila from the spiritual world in to the material world so-called. That when He presents this idea to Shrimati Radharani, that She says, “I will only go if we take all of our paraphernalia with us.”
    She doesn’t wanna replica or something similar, but She saying, “The Jamuna, Vrinda… — everything or I’m not going.” [Laughing]. And She says it twice to underscore, that She is very serious. “Have to bring Jamuna, Vrinda… — everything. What we have, we take all of these with us and descend there”.
    00:45:26
    So another way of seeing it is that mysteriously, mystically and for the benefit of everyone the original is brought in to this world. And what remains behind Goloka is like a satellite, extension of the original. Such things are possible with Krishna. And that makes the prapanca-lila all the more interesting and dramatic, because we can understand — in the spiritual world there are no condition souls.
    So, all those pastimes there, they are all… Every aspect of it is conducted by liberated souls. Where is when the Lord brings His a bow down here [in this place, His pastimes here]. The infinite in Guru Maharaja’s words actually mixing with the finite as if He is one of them.
    And that we talked about in the beginning, and same thing in Mahaprabhu’s pastimes. There are, I mean, to be blunt they’re mundane people, who come in connection with Mahaprabhu or Krishna. And according to their capacity they either appreciate, do not appreciate — the gradations of appreciation may be there, how He is viewed.
    00:47:03
    As in a Devi-bhav in the house of Chandrashekhar Acharja according to the inner awakenment, development of those, now these are devotees not… none devotees. But still there is gradation according to the inner awakenment. So some are seeing Durga Devi, some are seeing Chandi, some seeing Lakshmi, Rukmini, Shrimati Radharani. All simultaneously they’re seeing according to the inner awakenment, inner spiritual development.
    So, then we can say, [will] the material world has some special pastimes for Krishna. It’s not just liberate all this condition souls, get it over with, then only have a spiritual world. That’s not described anywhere. There’s a time the mahapralaya […in] is sushukti this deep like sleeping stage, whatever condition souls didn’t make it, they inner in a sleeping condition within Mahavishnu. And [just] they come out again, get these opportunities again.
    00:48:31
    But brahmajyoti, jivas are… it’s a growing thing, somorbing generated. Zero plus zero equal zero. Zero time zero equal zero. It’s always Krishna and only Krishna, Radha-Krishna and there extensions, expansions and entourage. But this is growing, living, growing and dynamic.
    So that means that repeatedly there are innumerable opportunities for condition souls to come in connection with the Lord and his pastimes, His avatars, incarnations, divine abode, associates etcetera.
    So it’s hopeful, scenario for all of us.
    Does that answer the question?
    Dinashraya Prabhu: Yes.
    Goswami Maharaj: [Laughing]
    00:50:11
    Dinashraya Prabhu: So, from Nrisimha Chaytanya Prabhu (USA): “Pleas except my dandavat, dear Maharaj.
    Base on the Bhagavatam verse that says: ‘sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje’, it use the criteria of what is right or what is wrong in this world, what is religion and irreligion. And ultimately nothing seems perfect or permanent other then thinks which are pleasing to the Lord. But specific name used is “Adhoksaja”, meaning beyond all the approach or our senses and faculties.
    Goswami Maharaj: Yeah.
    Dinashraya Prabhu: So, how do we come to terms with the fact that the value of correctness of what is right or wrong of anything is dependent upon something which transcend all our abilities to comprehend. So…
    Goswami Maharaj: That means, points to amnay Revealed Truth and agents of Revealed Truth, the devotees. The longing short of is it the only way we can have any type of certainty and terms of pleasing Krishna is through His agents.
    00:51:43
    The statements of the scriptures are there, but more specifically His agents, His devotees. Because in the statements of the scripture from the mouth of Krishna comes the importance of having of serving His devotees and having substantial relationship with them as a means to please Him.
    aham bhakta paradhino
    hy asvatantra iva dvija
    So He is apparently independent, indifferent, aloof — all this things. But in the presence of devotion it’s as if He looses His independence. That’s the power of devotion, which is in the heart of genuine devotees. Krishna comes under their control. The Supreme Controller is under their control.
    So that means Adhoksaja — beyond the grasp of the mind, senses, intellect. But the 87 chapter “Shrimad-Bhagavatam”, 10th canto, Veda-stuti prayers of the personified Vedas. Deals with some of this.
    00:53:21
    Saying, that when it’s mention that, if the Vedas they’re sounds, and He vibrate sounds like with your tong, your voice bugs, the ether etcetera. That’s [does] are all mundane things. How can it indicate or generate anything spiritual by using material. I think that’s kind of similar to this question. And one of the answers, given there is that this is really the purpose of all of this things, of having senses, mind, intelligence. You know hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling, feeling, but of another type.
    So what do we hear — Rupa Goswami and according Narada,
    sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam
    hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate
    Who is Adhoksaja? Another one and His name is Hrisikesh. And saying: and if you saturate your senses under the guidance of sadhu, shastra, Guru and vayshnav in service, than svayam eva sphuraty adah, sevon mukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adah. He make [and sent] to reveal Himself. And what He reveals is still beyond the mundane mind, intellect and senses, but not the spiritual senses.
    00:54:58
    Chakravarti Thakur says in one place: another meaning of adha aksaja is like “close your eyes”. Krishna tells to Braja-gopies, [who are] feeling separation from Him, at a letter from Uddhava: “Close your eyes and think of Me and I will appear there”. [Laughing]. And He does. But we like it. Prefer, we’re… Who is the object of the, you know, paramatma-yogis, is the object of their hearts, is walking the streets of Navadvip or Vrindavan.
    Adha, aksaja is a reference to mundane sense experience is… Adha aksaja is suppressed, when He descends, doesn’t mean: “Forget it! He can’t be seen. He can’t be seen and heard experiencing, you know, just forget it!” No. It’s saying: when He reveals Himself to you, all the mundane experience will be suppressed at that time. That’s adha aksaja, Adhoksaja.
    00:56:28
    But there will be seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, feeling — all of this things. But it wouldn’t be through gloves, being enveloped in a layer — mind, intellect, ego.
    bhumir apo ‘nalo vayuh
    kham mano buddhir eva ca
    ahankara…
    What is that…?
    Apani-pado javano grahita
    He has no legs, no eyes, no ears, but He is fast, can see everything and can hear everything. Means to say: no mundane senses.
    srutva gunan bhuvana-sundara srnvatam te
    nirvisa karna-vivarair harato ‘nga-tapam
    rupam drsam drsimatam akhilartha-labham
    tvayi acyutavisati cittam apatrapam me
    Rukmini says: “When I heard about You, I could understand: I would see Your form within me, that You are the most beautiful thing in the world, Bhuvana Sundar”. That’s what it means, actually. But not of this world. [You saying]: “the most beautiful thing in the world” means Adhoksaja really.
    00:58:06
    [You] said: “And now I understand, why we have eyes, what they’re meant for. They’re meant for seeing Your divine form”. And we think it’s optional. Like: “And you can use the senses to do this or do that”. But somebody says, [who have] some connection with Krishna, says: “Now I understand, why there such a thing is site, why the senses of site exist? It exist to see You and Your paraphernalia, and Your pastimes. It’s a wonderful thing, gift of Yours — to hear about You, to hear Your holly name, to taste You. Raso ‘ham apsu kaunteya . Punyo gandhah prithivyam ca .
    We have to remember: there is always and only Krishna. You know, where we’re coming from? We’re thinking about it. Like: we’re willing to allow Krishna, that there be akrishna, that actually there is always and only Krishna.
    00:59:31
    And Krishna’s the system: Radha and Krishna, Lalita-Vishakha, Nanda-Yashoda, Shridam-Subal etcetera.
    So, where we are present? Vinod bole hai hai haridas hari nahe pai Bhaktivinod Thakur says: “Krishna, He is our nearest and dearest, but nowhere to be found. What is, what kind of a mass have we got [ourselves into]. But by hearing: “srutva gunan bhuvana-sundara srnvatam te”. Then Adhoksaja-Krisna can reveal Himself to us. Sraddhanvito'nusrinuyad atha varnayed yah . To faith. [] …the breath here Guru Maharaj says: the air… We have a scientist here. Atmosphere, stratosphere, ionosphere — anybody know that? What is it?
    01:01:00
    — …
    — Year! What …call? Atmosphere, stratosphere, ionosphere. Right? [Laughing].
    And saying: so air … make it’s. Maybe I’ve got some wrong or something, you know, somebody rights in… Air go so far, as a point, — Guru Maharaj saying. Then ether has more extensive range. But he think so: faith, there is a plane, that’s only approachable by faith. It’s a very… it’s a good example.
    So, we need like, when you need to breath, you can’t be out of the atmosphere, where it is no air. [Won’t be] have to survive there.
    Prabhupad told to Achyutananda: “You’ll faint” In that room Guru Maharaga’s broadcasting from, we will faint, we can’t remain conscious there. But through the cultivation of faith you can learn more like a diver. The divers, you know, the divers, who dive for pearls, the way they use to do at where like how to do with, how much you hold your breath. You hold your … then you go down and then you have to come up according to your capacity.
    01:02:31
    Vrindavan Das Thakur saying like: a bird, flying in infinite sky. It’s another example. The finite going to meet the infinite. A drop of the infinite overwhelms the finite. Ekamseno sthito jagat. “Arjun, a drop of My infinite…if”, you know, “What’s finite to Me, is a f…”, you know, “inconceivable infinite to you. Let me know, when you [felt] enough”.
    Sometimes in Krishna-consciousness we think: “We will believe all this things…We are …” But we have to reconceive the infinite, repeatedly. Two fingers too short [dui angaly]. What we thought was enough it’s not enough. It’s Krishna’s out of the range of that. That’s Adhoksaja.
    But if He so chooses to reveal Himself to you, you can have a gleams.
    Bhaktivinod Thakur says: “Like lightning”. Like now: if there’s lightning, everything will be illumined momentarily, and then it will vanish.
    01:04:02
    But in the case of a gleams of Krishna-conception, that the aftermath will live some hankering in the heart of the devotee.
    Like the poet Volest Even, he has poem, called like… thirteen different ways, looking like a black bird. Don’t worry about it. But one of the lines said: “If I do not know, [which] I prefer: the song of the black bird or just after” Understand? “The song or just after”. “Just after” is separation, that means remembrance, remembering that. That’s I don’t know, which I prefer: meeting or separation, union or separation. Seems in separ… recalling that. It’s more profound, it’s deeper, can recall again and again, and again a gleams.
    But that will… how to say? [Fuel], some hunkering in that devotee for another connection, if it’s so pleases the Lord. And if not, that’s good too.
    Radharani says: “If His happiness is Me suffering, then that’s good for Me. I’m happy with that. That’s all, I need to know: is whatever the situation is, is it making Krishna happy”.
    01:05:27
    Like Gurudev phrasing Udamany Prabhu, saying: “He just asked me: ‘Do You want this or not? Does this making You happy or not?’ That was his only question”. And Gurudev saying: “Yes, then he continues doing that, whether that makes him happy or not, that’s not his concern. That’s devotion”.
    Shrimati Radharani, Antya-lila, chapter 20 [verse 47], Chaytanya-charitamritam:
    āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām
    adarśanān marma-hatāṁ karotu vā
    yathā tathā vā vidadhātu lampaṭo
    mat-prāṇa-nāthas tu sa eva nāparaḥ
    Adarsanam. It’s interesting. She speaks [of] not seeing Krishna. That’s the real test. And that’s good for us, because that’s our situation. We’re not seeing.
    So, if you can go on in the [не понятно]… of not seeing, Hare Krishna, maybe a devotee, that highest renounced type person possible — a devotee of Krishna.